2008

[FyberOptic]

The Democrat + high taxes claim is always a silly one to make, because republicans have no track record for lowering them.  If taxes get raised by any coming democratic presidents, it'll be to try and pay for this mess that our current republican administration has gotten us into.  Which is kind of ironic considering our last democratic president had to deal with the aftermath of a Bush going into Iraq as well.

Also, since this topic refers to Obama, I thought it might be important to reference this, since the GOP Fox News would have you think he's an awful person.

[Red_Raven]

I love how Keith Oberman makes fun of Fox News, lol.

[Prox]

OLBERMANN. OLBERMANNNNN.

Also, it looks like I have a lot to talk about now...!

First off, yes, Hillary is a very bad choice. But the fact that she couldn't tell that Bill was sexing another woman under the desk isn't an indication she'd be a bad president. She's not the fucking CIA! Also, as for the Family Entertainment Protection Act, which I can only assume is the thing you're talking about by pronouncing her an "enemy to us video gamers", that's probably a good idea. But you're over 18, why should you care anyways? Also, oratory is certainly not a requirement for presidency. She's intimidating enough as it is. And sure, she is arrogant. It's called ambition, and it's pretty much the only reason she's in the position she's in.

Second, whoa, whoa, Hitomic-boy, slow down. Let's work through this. Faltering in Iraq, floodgates open, etc. This is all shit. Sure, they hate us, but they're not about to fucking take us over. They make bombs out of styrofoam, and we spend more than 400 billion dollars every year on defense. Also, the reason that there's so much sectarian violence over there now is because we took out Saddam. It's true he was responsible for thousands of deaths, but since he's not there iron-fisting everyone into line anymore and we've floundered for three years since taking him out, civil war has started and has killed 600,000 people already, which is a disgrace. A fucking disgrace. Also, about Hillary pulling us out, all i can give you is a harsh laugh. Now I know you fucks never believe me when I try to make a point, so I'm going to quote a letter she wrote to her constituents. "...I do not believe that we should allow [the war] to be an open-ended commitment without limits or end. Nor do I believe that we can or should pull out of Iraq immediately." Chew on that for a while.

Okay, high taxes. How can you complain about something like that? The United States has a 12-figure trade deficit and national debt that reaches into the trillions. We sit here in our seven-room houses with our 36-inch TVs and our iPods, and we gripe about taxes. Well fuck that. If it means helping get the country I've lived in my entire life into a state of fiscal responsibility, I'd be willing to live on minimum wage in a van down by the river with 50% taxes.

Also, it almost makes me cry to hear you talk about women that way. Those generalizations you're making are utterly fallacious, and yes, sexist. I'm pretty sure you don't know more than 50 women, who are surely not all the women in the world, correct? So you don't know whether or not that's true. What's more you don't know Hillary Clinton. You don't know what she's like, nor do you know if she fits your ugly stereotype. So fuck off.

In addition, testosterone does nothing for politicians. If you took biology in 9th grade like I did, you should know like I know that increases in testosterone create increases in irrationality, rage, and blind confidence, which are exactly the antonyms of the qualities needed by good politicans. Politicians need to be calm and they need to think things through and weigh all odds. Politicians are only failures if they don't think correctly.

As for abortion, can you imagine trying to get a high school diploma, do all the homework, while having to wait on a baby hand and foot? Can you imagine what it would be like to try to support your baby with a minimum wage job? Can you imagine passing the baby off heartlessly to your parents so you can do well in school? Can you imagine having to make the choice to erase a life which was created within your very own  body? Or alternatively, can you imagine having to spend your entire life taking care of a baby who is the product of rape? Can you imagine that? I don't think so. Abortion isn't just a safeguard for total sluts. The only time a woman would want to abort a baby is if she knew it would ruin her life, like if she was a high school student or a rape victim. And if it ruins the woman's life, you can bet your own life it would ruin the kid as well. You almost act as if the woman doesn't care at all about that life inside her. She just doesn't want to have the kid live in a situation where its life would be a total waste. If you can't empathize with these people, you literally don't even deserve to be alive yourself.

So, global warming, now, is it? Sigh. I really can't argue this very well. There's all the data, sitting there, showing how we've ruined the cycle, how the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is going up when it's supposed to be going down. It's true. We're supposed to be on the downhill slope. And also, how can you think it's just part of a natural cycle when hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline are burned every day, releasing several hundred tons of carbon dioxide gas? Gasoline hasn't been being burnt at this rate since the beginning of the Earth, I'm sure you know. I... I just can't see how you can deny what almost every single environmentalist alive has proven, over and over again.

Also, the right to bear arms. Yes, we do have the right to bear arms. It's in the Bill of Rights as I am well aware. However, as Hillary has stated plenty of times, we can't just trust everybody to be responsible with submachine guns and assault rifles, weapons which should only be used by the military. Sidearms are plenty enough to protect yourself and others, and just to make sure no crazies get at them, we should make mandatory licenses and psychiatric tests every year. People may want to have their big guns, but they're really just too dangerous to have legal. I just don't see how people could disagree with that.

Okay, here's the only important part of this whole thing. The reason Hillary wouldn't be a good president. Most people, yourselves included, would just say the easiest answer, which would invariably be, her political opinions. Well, that's not the real issue here. The real reason she'd be a bad president is, like I've said before, she's too polarizing. You either love her or hate her. She's been an issue for years, and because of this, now she's like a magnet, splitting people up into two big, undivided groups. There's really no middle ground with her, and there always needs to be middle ground so that the people of this country can express their views and have the president be aware of them. Because in all honesty, Hillary's a populist. She really does care about people, but people don't care enough about her to compromise with each other.

Also, about the Obama thing, I hate FOX news. They make it seem like all Muslims are gun-toting war hawks. I die a little every time I hear someone on there shouting about stuff like that.

As a closing note, Hitomi, even though you'll probably just give a big ol' TL;DR to all this, heck, you got me angry, and I needed to vent it, so there.

[ecto]

Prox calm down. Yes i'm over 18. the point is, allow us to decide what we want to play.That should be up to parents, yourself and not the goverment. If she's allowed to crack down on one game such as Grand Theft Auto think of what's next. Mortal Kombat, Splinter Cell, Medal of Honor I can go on. Hillary is an extremist when it comes to censorship. One of the reasons why I don't like her. Not detecting her husbands cheating on her may not have to do with her ability to run the country but come on now. I believe she allowed it to go on so she could play the pity card to the American people if she ever decided to run. Monica certainly doesn't mind the free publicity for her purses now does she?

While you say that Hillary won't pull us out remember a very fine point I will make and has happened before. A president has gone back on what theyve promised the American people.

I don't agree with Hitomi that hillary cant win simply because she's a woman.

Your absolutley right Prox, we cant trust every one with fire arms. Yes this is in the Bill of Rights. This is something that could be ammended with enough votes in the future. I don't want that to happen, and it will if someone who favors gun control is elected into office. Do I need to point out the problems that should arise if this were to happen?

[HitomiBoy]

Second, whoa, whoa, Hitomic-boy, slow down. Let's work through this. Faltering in Iraq, floodgates open, etc. This is all shit. Sure, they hate us, but they're not about to fucking take us over. They make bombs out of styrofoam, and we spend more than 400 billion dollars every year on defense. Also, the reason that there's so much sectarian violence over there now is because we took out Saddam. It's true he was responsible for thousands of deaths, but since he's not there iron-fisting everyone into line anymore and we've floundered for three years since taking him out, civil war has started and has killed 600,000 people already, which is a disgrace. A fucking disgrace. Also, about Hillary pulling us out, all i can give you is a harsh laugh. Now I know you fucks never believe me when I try to make a point, so I'm going to quote a letter she wrote to her constituents. "...I do not believe that we should allow [the war] to be an open-ended commitment without limits or end. Nor do I believe that we can or should pull out of Iraq immediately." Chew on that for a while.

The sectarian violence in Iraq is caused, yes, by our taking out of saddam. This is true, however, by pulling out, we show to the rest of the terrorist world that we are weaklings, unable to keep by what we set out to do, and a falterer at heart, opening, as you put it, the flood gates to another terrorist attack. No troops should be removed until the job is all done.

Okay, high taxes. How can you complain about something like that? The United States has a 12-figure trade deficit and national debt that reaches into the trillions. We sit here in our seven-room houses with our 36-inch TVs and our iPods, and we gripe about taxes. Well fuck that. If it means helping get the country I've lived in my entire life into a state of fiscal responsibility, I'd be willing to live on minimum wage in a van down by the river with 50% taxes.

You would like to live in a van by the river, but alot of people, want to move out of that van and into a house. Guess what more taxes would do? Wither make it harder, or worse, cause them to have to sell their van. Then what? Now he needs social security? Oh, well lets up the taxes to pay for his social security! Oh, wait, that means we have more people without a van. Hmm, We need to pay for them! Up the taxes! Wait... there's no one left to tax... Shit...

That get the point across? If not

Plain and simple, no metaphyzics involved-

Less taxes means more money, means more spending, means more income for the nation. Amazing.

Also, it almost makes me cry to hear you talk about women that way. Those generalizations you're making are utterly fallacious, and yes, sexist. I'm pretty sure you don't know more than 50 women, who are surely not all the women in the world, correct? So you don't know whether or not that's true. What's more you don't know Hillary Clinton. You don't know what she's like, nor do you know if she fits your ugly stereotype. So fuck off.

As for the irrational behaviour- true, it is somewhat sexist, however, you cannot say that you personally don't think that it's just a little true. If you don't there's a word for this behaviour. It's spoken in hush hush tones, but still well known. Look it up. It's PMS. And whether or not hilary has this or not, is beyond the point, her actions, not her words, have shown she still has this brash irrational behavior to this day.

Incase you were wondering also- prone means likely not always. Not all women are brash, irrational, and hasty, obviously.

In addition, testosterone does nothing for politicians. If you took biology in 9th grade like I did, you should know like I know that increases in testosterone create increases in irrationality, rage, and blind confidence, which are exactly the antonyms of the qualities needed by good politicans. Politicians need to be calm and they need to think things through and weigh all odds. Politicians are only failures if they don't think correctly.

By testes I mean a man/woman, who when he says I will build a border wall, he will build that god damned wall. A man/woman who when he says he beleives in this, he doen't change his mind to beleive in that. That kind, also known as figurative balls. Alot of women have them too. I'm sure you know some.

As for abortion, can you imagine trying to get a high school diploma, do all the homework, while having to wait on a baby hand and foot? Can you imagine what it would be like to try to support your baby with a minimum wage job? Can you imagine passing the baby off heartlessly to your parents so you can do well in school? Can you imagine having to make the choice to erase a life which was created within your very own  body? Or alternatively, can you imagine having to spend your entire life taking care of a baby who is the product of rape? Can you imagine that? I don't think so. Abortion isn't just a safeguard for total sluts. The only time a woman would want to abort a baby is if she knew it would ruin her life, like if she was a high school student or a rape victim. And if it ruins the woman's life, you can bet your own life it would ruin the kid as well. You almost act as if the woman doesn't care at all about that life inside her. She just doesn't want to have the kid live in a situation where its life would be a total waste. If you can't empathize with these people, you literally don't even deserve to be alive yourself.

The problem with that statement is this. Abortion is a safety net for total sluts. Of all ages and diseases. Now true, I can emphasize a little with rape victims, because they didn't want that child, and I could sort of let it pass, but the thing is, too many people abort willy nilly because they don't want it. Do you realise that only 1 percent of all abortions are due to rape? 3 to incest? That's pretty f-ing messed up. 4 percent! and that's only of the RECORDED abortions. Infinitely more happen under secret abortions where the women does not want to be recorded. To allow abortions is to allow a genocide of massive proportions, greater then that of the holocaust even, to propensuate under your very nose!

If you still beleive in abortions- Then tell me this.

Would you have a problem with your mother aborting you?
If you do, you're a big ass hippocrite. If you wouldn't, then you're fucked up. No offense.

So, global warming, now, is it? Sigh. I really can't argue this very well. There's all the data, sitting there, showing how we've ruined the cycle, how the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is going up when it's supposed to be going down. It's true. We're supposed to be on the downhill slope. And also, how can you think it's just part of a natural cycle when hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline are burned every day, releasing several hundred tons of carbon dioxide gas? Gasoline hasn't been being burnt at this rate since the beginning of the Earth, I'm sure you know. I... I just can't see how you can deny what almost every single environmentalist alive has proven, over and over again.

Note the simple earth trends, going back before we had cars.

A little more recent

A little more wide veiw

How much affect we DO have

CO2 impoverished? WHAT? ya.

And just in case that wasn't enough, here's the entire site.

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

Can you smell PWNT SCRUB!?!?!?!

Also, the right to bear arms. Yes, we do have the right to bear arms. It's in the Bill of Rights as I am well aware. However, as Hillary has stated plenty of times, we can't just trust everybody to be responsible with submachine guns and assault rifles, weapons which should only be used by the military. Sidearms are plenty enough to protect yourself and others, and just to make sure no crazies get at them, we should make mandatory licenses and psychiatric tests every year. People may want to have their big guns, but they're really just too dangerous to have legal. I just don't see how people could disagree with that.

We already have a method. It's called a liscense. And we should be allowed to have auutomated rifles. We need them, because if our government should go corrupt, and we should feel the need to rise up, we must have equivalent technology, or get raped of course.

As a closing note, Hitomi, even though you'll probably just give a big ol' TL;DR to all this, heck, you got me angry, and I needed to vent it, so there.

Well, that didn't happen now did it.


I like my nubkaykes extra flaky with some pwnt icing in the morning. Good pic-me-up for finals

[Prox]

And what exactly did we set out to do? First it was Osama Bin Laden, which we never got around to. And then we pretended to see weapons of mass destruction, which weren't there. Now we're just sitting there while the Iraqis are killing each other. I'm not advocating that we pull out, oh no. We need to stay there and clean up the mess we made. However, we'll look weak either way.

Okay. First, 50% taxes will never happen unless we elect a socialist, and I'm sure that Americans dislike standing in lines enough that they'll never do that. Also, the van by the river bit was a joke. Chris Farley told it on SNL one time. Anyways, it was just to make a point, that I would be willing to accept higher taxes if it meant that we would get out of debt faster. However, if I have lower taxes, and I spend all my money on VCRs made in Taiwan, television sets made in China, cars made in Japan, and clothing made in Bangladesh, where does that money go? Does it stay here? No. Even if you buy a product made in the USA from a company like Wal-Mart, which is involved internationally, there's a good chance that your money will either go overseas, or into the pockets of the rich investors, who just got their taxes cut by Bush so they're free to go buy a mansion in Montenegro. It's really not that simple. I don't even know if what I'm saying makes sense, I'm not an economist. But I'm pretty sure that more needs to be done than just throwing people money and hoping it'll help you out in the long run.

Gender issues are really not for me to talk about, but whatever. Yes, of course, I know young women do tend to get irascible before their periods, which is what we all call PMS. However, Hillary's through menopause. She's almost sixty years old. She's a ripe old lady, and probably hasn't had a period for ten years. I personally think she's less brash and irrational and more domineering and progressive, which might be better...! Plus, I don't think it's fair to talk about women's emotions without talking about the emotional shortcomings of men, of which we have plenty. So, let's just drop this one subject, as it was sort of a mistake on my part to bring up.

As for the testosterone bit, I'm going to play the safety card here and say that I was just joking again! Ha! Ha! But really, I was only being pretentious. Still, I think people who hold on to really bad ideas and only listen to people who support them and not those who want to redress them are even worse than flip-flops. I think that getting things done is important, but even more important is getting the right things done.

On abortion, I failed to mention that sometimes high school students make mistakes! We're only human, and we're not really all that experienced at life. I'm pretty sure that's where most of the other 96 percent comes from. I dislike the belief that preventing abortion saves lives in a noble way, and I'd like to restate that if the mother is not mature enough and not set well enough in this world to take care of the baby properly, it'll ruin both her life and the baby's life.

Moral issues aren't really my forte. Yes, it's true that the embryo is alive and it has the potential to grow into a human who thinks rationally, but on the other hand, if that baby's just going to get born into the world into a family that can't handle it, an education system that can't provide for it, and a world that doesn't care about it, what's going to happen? Or rather, what should happen? Should the baby not be born at all? It's a difficult question to answer with all the bases covered.

Also about that question, two things. First, my mother can't abort me, because I'm already several years out of the womb. Second, I wouldn't have had a problem with my mother aborting me IF she couldn't take care of me. If my birth would cause my mother and I to suffer, I'd rather not be born at all. However, she and my father did a fine job taking care of me, and now look where I am! Arguing with people I can't even see or hear!

As a side note, I think it's ironic that men want to decide what women should do with their bodies. It might be a good idea to just leave it to them...!

As for global warming again, I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously unless you can get me substantial evidence from actual scientists, not just a website made by people who may or may not know what they're talking about. Also, you need to explain yourself. I could just as easily come up with a bunch of data and graphs which prove the exact opposite.

And no, I don't smell pwnt scrub. Keep it diplomatic.

Gun control. Sure, we have licenses. Do we have to reapply for them every year? Do we have to take a psychiatric test every year? Actually, I don't know. You tell me. Plus, i'm sure the government is always just itching to turn this place into a dictatorship or a communist state so that we can go bankrupt! Good thing I have an AK-47! Sorry sir, things like that don't just happen every day. There usually has to be some kind of dramatic event to shuffle things up, or if not, a slow change which, as long as we stay a democracy, can be righted with the pen and not the sword.

I don't even know why I said all that, because I can sort of tell from what you've been acting like that my weak words will only elicit more fire from you. But oh well, I am compelled to shoot...!

[FyberOptic]

I'm too lazy to read over all this at the moment, but I can tell you that for every graph you produce to deny global warming, someone else can produce a graph that says yours are wrong.  Watch Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and you'll see quite a shit ton of evidence to the contrary, for example.  Besides, Prox is right, there's no way that all of the burning of gases and materials isn't affecting the entire planet negatively, so I'm more inclined to believe that than the "studies" done by people who likely have pockets padded by the oil industry.  Not to mention, even Bush has somewhat begun to discuss the issues involved, which nobody expected considering the general republican opinion on the matter.

As for abortion, this has always been an extremely religious-based topic, because the religion folk (and mostly republican) consider "all life precious", but others argue there's not even any life there yet to be "killing".  But I still say it should be the woman's decision, because nobody else has to suffer the burden of the child but her.  I don't agree with it being allowed at the later stages though, not only for the developmental reasons, but she should know early on whether she wants that child, in the event of rape or an accident or whatever.

Part of the reason I'm against extreme anti-abortion positions is that things like birth control and the morning after pill are legal, but some pharmacists take it upon themselves to decide whether or not people can have them.  It's not their job to do that, it's none of their business, nor their right to influence/bully others with their opinions when in such a position.  That's almost like a fat man going to the grocery store and not being allowed to buy snacks because the cashier decided he didn't need'em.

[Prox]

Also, about the global warming thing, we really don't know a lot about our planet's past, due to the fact that nobody was around back then. Methods we have of determining statistics like that can't be totally accurate, if they're even to be believed at all.

Yeah, the definition of the word "life" is still being argued, even today. I like to drop religion from the picture when talking about things unrelated to it, because mostly that just complicates things. Also, yeah, i heard about those pharmacies that harrass people who try to get birth control pills. Pretty strange stuff.

[HitomiBoy]

And what exactly did we set out to do? First it was Osama Bin Laden, which we never got around to. And then we pretended to see weapons of mass destruction, which weren't there. Now we're just sitting there while the Iraqis are killing each other. I'm not advocating that we pull out, oh no. We need to stay there and clean up the mess we made. However, we'll look weak either way.

We lost track of osama, and we did find wmd's.

Okay. First, 50% taxes will never happen unless we elect a socialist, and I'm sure that Americans dislike standing in lines enough that they'll never do that. Also, the van by the river bit was a joke. Chris Farley told it on SNL one time. Anyways, it was just to make a point, that I would be willing to accept higher taxes if it meant that we would get out of debt faster. However, if I have lower taxes, and I spend all my money on VCRs made in Taiwan, television sets made in China, cars made in Japan, and clothing made in Bangladesh, where does that money go? Does it stay here? No. Even if you buy a product made in the USA from a company like Wal-Mart, which is involved internationally, there's a good chance that your money will either go overseas, or into the pockets of the rich investors, who just got their taxes cut by Bush so they're free to go buy a mansion in Montenegro. It's really not that simple. I don't even know if what I'm saying makes sense, I'm not an economist. But I'm pretty sure that more needs to be done than just throwing people money and hoping it'll help you out in the long run.

Both of my brother are economists and they can both tell you lower taxes brings in a better economy.

Gender issues are really not for me to talk about, but whatever. Yes, of course, I know young women do tend to get irascible before their periods, which is what we all call PMS. However, Hillary's through menopause. She's almost sixty years old. She's a ripe old lady, and probably hasn't had a period for ten years. I personally think she's less brash and irrational and more domineering and progressive, which might be better...! Plus, I don't think it's fair to talk about women's emotions without talking about the emotional shortcomings of men, of which we have plenty. So, let's just drop this one subject, as it was sort of a mistake on my part to bring up.

[DROPPED]

As for the testosterone bit, I'm going to play the safety card here and say that I was just joking again! Ha! Ha! But really, I was only being pretentious. Still, I think people who hold on to really bad ideas and only listen to people who support them and not those who want to redress them are even worse than flip-flops. I think that getting things done is important, but even more important is getting the right things done.

[DROPPED]

On abortion, I failed to mention that sometimes high school students make mistakes! We're only human, and we're not really all that experienced at life. I'm pretty sure that's where most of the other 96 percent comes from. I dislike the belief that preventing abortion saves lives in a noble way, and I'd like to restate that if the mother is not mature enough and not set well enough in this world to take care of the baby properly, it'll ruin both her life and the baby's life.

To bad, she f-ed up, and she has to live with it, just like the rest of us. Also, theres this thing called adoption. And lastly, the majority of the 96% comes from "I don't wanna"'s and "I wasn't planning on"s.

Moral issues aren't really my forte. Yes, it's true that the embryo is alive and it has the potential to grow into a human who thinks rationally, but on the other hand, if that baby's just going to get born into the world into a family that can't handle it, an education system that can't provide for it, and a world that doesn't care about it, what's going to happen? Or rather, what should happen? Should the baby not be born at all? It's a difficult question to answer with all the bases covered.

Adoption. end of story

Also about that question, two things. First, my mother can't abort me, because I'm already several years out of the womb. Second, I wouldn't have had a problem with my mother aborting me IF she couldn't take care of me. If my birth would cause my mother and I to suffer, I'd rather not be born at all. However, she and my father did a fine job taking care of me, and now look where I am! Arguing with people I can't even see or hear!

No offense, but thats just plain deranged, to not care if you had been aborted.

As a side note, I think it's ironic that men want to decide what women should do with their bodies. It might be a good idea to just leave it to them...!

Pro choice is no choice for somebody

As for global warming again, I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously unless you can get me substantial evidence from actual scientists, not just a website made by people who may or may not know what they're talking about. Also, you need to explain yourself. I could just as easily come up with a bunch of data and graphs which prove the exact opposite.

Yes, someone could produce graphs that say the opposite, but those wouldn't be fact.

Also, i did watch that movie, and funny thing is, this web site, USES the SAME FACTS that al gore does, only, they look at it un biased. It's all documented. Read it through, have the diginity to do it. It may help you. All facts are stated btw.

Gun control. Sure, we have licenses. Do we have to reapply for them every year? Do we have to take a psychiatric test every year? Actually, I don't know. You tell me. Plus, i'm sure the government is always just itching to turn this place into a dictatorship or a communist state so that we can go bankrupt! Good thing I have an AK-47! Sorry sir, things like that don't just happen every day. There usually has to be some kind of dramatic event to shuffle things up, or if not, a slow change which, as long as we stay a democracy, can be righted with the pen and not the sword.

Everyone knows the best peace's are resolved through war. Look at us and brittain.

[Boris]

First, guns. The notion behind gun control is that we have the right to bear arms to protect us from tyrannical governments. Gun control advocates state that the US is no longer a threat to reasonable individual, but I say they couldn't be more wrong. I need my AK's for when the shit finally does hit the fan and the time to get real scared is when the same government that could some day be 'the shit' is telling me I can't have them anymore because some crazies are using them incorrectly. PEE ESS, gun ownership advocacy folks do in fact usually are just refering to sidearms for conceled defense from street crime, but I consider all private weapon ownership as something we need to protect. Proper use and misuse is a matter for the courts thereafter.

Second, Taxes. Don't speak for your brothers or sites please, take a look at economics yourself. High taxes never help anybody, they just bring us all down to the lowest common denominator (except for the really really wealthy who, and trust me on this, will always find a way to keep a substantial portion no matter how specifically you try to legally target them. If you want these people's money they only way is a mob with torches and pitchforks.) The more I look on it, the more I see the only people raising taxes hurt is the middle class, who despite I think it was Ecto's assertion that we're living in seven bedroom houses with huge TV's, are mostly just trying to save enough money to put our progeny through secondary education so they can enjoy the same lifestyle of a house and a bit of land. You can understand why I'm bitter about working class folks saying we oughta pay more, and the rich are just laughing while enjoying their fortunes, but it's more than that, fundamentally taxes are only supposed to support services we all use. Roads? Fine, Police and Fire services? yes please. The military to protect our interests? Argueable in the cases of some wars, I know, but in general, a good idea. Social support for the poor? I fail, quite frankly, to see how this is my problem. For 5900 years of the ~6000 or so of RECORDED human history (I'm a naturalist, so I'm of the belife there were thousands or thousands back beyond that) this has never been the case.
If taxes actually were used in any kind of paying off the national debt, I'd be thrilled and maybe even pitch in, but the fact is the money will dissapere straight into entitlement programs and we'll never see it again and never go back to paying less. And this brings me to my whole point which is that Hillary loves entitlement programs the most, particularly forceing us to all pitch in for medicare, but welfare and such I'm sure too. The taxes will be used in the most innapropriate way possible, and never be recialmable for lowering again because they are 'entitlement' programs.

Oh, one other thing while I'm here based on the 'our economy' squable.
News flash: The world market is globalizing. Minimum wage has assured we've priced ourself out of manufactureing in america, and soon, no matter what we do protectionist-wise for our economy, our standard of living is going to tank. We're going to have to drop down and get with how the rest of the world is living because our post-WW2 economy and living standard has been sustained basically for as long as earthly possible. I realize once again I'm privilaged in that my socioeconomic background will shield me from this somewhat and I'm telling many to 'suck it up' from up on a pedestal, but that doesn't change the fact that the market is going to ballance itself globaly whether we like that one not.

[ecto]

I think it was Ecto's assertion that we're living in seven bedroom houses with huge TV's, are mostly just trying to save enough money to put our progeny through secondary education so they can enjoy the same lifestyle of a house and a bit of land.

That was prox.

[Boris]

I stand corrected on the speaker then, but my point remains valid.

[HitomiBoy]

First, guns. The notion behind gun control is that we have the right to bear arms to protect us from tyrannical governments. Gun control advocates state that the US is no longer a threat to reasonable individual, but I say they couldn't be more wrong. I need my AK's for when the shit finally does hit the fan and the time to get real scared is when the same government that could some day be 'the shit' is telling me I can't have them anymore because some crazies are using them incorrectly. PEE ESS, gun ownership advocacy folks do in fact usually are just refering to sidearms for conceled defense from street crime, but I consider all private weapon ownership as something we need to protect. Proper use and misuse is a matter for the courts thereafter.

AMEN!

Second, Taxes. Don't speak for your brothers or sites please, take a look at economics yourself. High taxes never help anybody, they just bring us all down to the lowest common denominator (except for the really really wealthy who, and trust me on this, will always find a way to keep a substantial portion no matter how specifically you try to legally target them. If you want these people's money they only way is a mob with torches and pitchforks.) The more I look on it, the more I see the only people raising taxes hurt is the middle class, who despite I think it was Ecto's assertion that we're living in seven bedroom houses with huge TV's, are mostly just trying to save enough money to put our progeny through secondary education so they can enjoy the same lifestyle of a house and a bit of land. You can understand why I'm bitter about working class folks saying we oughta pay more, and the rich are just laughing while enjoying their fortunes, but it's more than that, fundamentally taxes are only supposed to support services we all use. Roads? Fine, Police and Fire services? yes please. The military to protect our interests? Argueable in the cases of some wars, I know, but in general, a good idea. Social support for the poor? I fail, quite frankly, to see how this is my problem. For 5900 years of the ~6000 or so of RECORDED human history (I'm a naturalist, so I'm of the belife there were thousands or thousands back beyond that) this has never been the case.
If taxes actually were used in any kind of paying off the national debt, I'd be thrilled and maybe even pitch in, but the fact is the money will dissapere straight into entitlement programs and we'll never see it again and never go back to paying less. And this brings me to my whole point which is that Hillary loves entitlement programs the most, particularly forceing us to all pitch in for medicare, but welfare and such I'm sure too. The taxes will be used in the most innapropriate way possible, and never be recialmable for lowering again because they are 'entitlement' programs.

Thats exactly what i was talking about. I like to give gist's, but this is basically what I was going at. High taxes fixes nothing, it has to do wth what congress decides to spend. And healthcare/welfare are NOT the top concerns. Taking care of the middle class that gets crewed by high taxes is.
I hate entitlements

[FyberOptic]

Some folks have the "I don't need it, why should I pay for it" attitude on healthcare, but they'd think twice if they suddenly became sick and/or old, unable to work, with medicine and medical bills to pay.  Or found themselves with a condition that affordable insurance companies would fail to cover.

And again, as far as the "Democrat = higher taxes" thing goes, maybe I should point out a particular republican who claimed there would be no new taxes, only to shoot them way up anyway.  Unless someone can show conclusive proof that all democrats raise taxes and republicans always lower them, then this is just an incorrect stereotype.

I do believe gun control is necessary however, because there are certain weapons that no individual ever needs to own.  Why does someone need a weapon capable of delivering any sort of rapid fire delivery?  It's totally unnecessary for both self protection as well as hunting, and is generally only used for killing.  I'm fine if people feel safer by owning a firearm, and if people want to go hunting or what have you that's cool/necessary too, but we need a little more common sense on just what KINDS of guns people can own.

As far as "concealed" weapons go, how safe do you feel everytime you see a guy walking by with a gun and/or knife holster on his belt, especially when these types of men are usually scruffy and dangerous looking?  Not to mention, how are we to know if this man isn't a crazy psycho without any license and about to go kill people, or just some overly weird dude trying to compensate for something?  I'm not necessary against the concept of a concealed weapon.  It's just that too many people seem to have no common sense on how to reasonably use that right without appearing threatening.


EDIT:  As far as choices for 2008 goes, apparently Kerry said today that he wouldn't be one of'em.  Also, for global warming, an international report is going to be released next week, and preliminary versions that have been read agree with the whole concept.  Which of course is not a surprise at all, but perhaps it'll make some kind of small impact on those that deny the fact.

[ecto]

I do believe gun control is necessary however, because there are certain weapons that no individual ever needs to own.  Why does someone need a weapon capable of delivering any sort of rapid fire delivery?  It's totally unnecessary for both self protection as well as hunting, and is generally only used for killing.  I'm fine if people feel safer by owning a firearm, and if people want to go hunting or what have you that's cool/necessary too, but we need a little more common sense on just what KINDS of guns people can own

Tell me that when gang's have Gatling guns. As long as a person is responsible with whatever fire arm he, she owns it shouldn't matter the size or firing speed.