Political Pigpin

[FyberOptic]

"Damning" evidence that intelligence was skewed to indicate the connection between Saddam and al-Qaida.

Not really big news there, since everyone knows they played on everyone's emotions from 9/11 to get that war going.  What I wonder about though is whether anything will ever come of it.  It seems Bush and Cheney passed enough legislation and pardons to get them both out of trouble, along with some others in their administration, so if anyone ever took the fall, it'd likely be some lower level lackies that aren't as important and were likely just taking orders.

[ecto]

Of course. The war has nothing to do with Sadams sixteen UN violations, his illegal invasion of Kuwait, and many other atrosities he committed. Let's overlook the facts and blame it solely on the president. Lets forget Clinton had numerous chances to capture Bin Ladin as well. While I believe there was no weapons of mass destruction and we shouldn't be there to begin with I also believe the UN would have simply slapped Sadam on the wrist. What we should have done was deal with Iran, then focus on Iraq. Russia's supplying them with missles, and it scares the hell out of me now they have possesion of nuclear material.

Fyber that article isn't enough to convince me. Unless you can actually find Gimble's findings.   

[FyberOptic]

The report is classified, and there's not really anything worth reading in the unclassified summary, so I reckon you'll have to take one of the many news sites reporting it for face value.

[ecto]

With the media going far left these days it's really difficult to take them seriously.With Smith's death, comparing her to Marylin Monroe I doubt this will get a lot of coverage. 

[FyberOptic]

If you're looking for the right wing version, Fox News has it, it just wasn't made very obvious.  I had to search, in fact.  Fox News is currently more interested in trying to make Iran look bad, as their top political story.

Anyway there's nothing different in their version of the story, other than them making sure to point out that Republicans don't much care about the report's findings.

[ecto]

Fox News is currently more interested in trying to make Iran look bad, as their top political story.

I don't see that, honestly. If the President of Iran continues to make threats against us, and Izrael he's only making himself look bad. That's my opinion. Is testing missiles and going forward with his nuclear program supposed to make Iran look good?

[Prox]

Really the worst things that Iran's leaders have said have been challenges to threats towards Iran made by the leaders of the United States, so really. Also, I don't think Iran's nuclear program has any more legs than North Korea's did, but even if it does, I'm willing to bet that it's just an attempt to try to keep the United States' middle east conflictmongering from seeping into Iran and damaging them.

And as for the "media" going "far-left", i have two things to say about this. The first one is the most simple. The income of news television stations, newspapers, and other news outlets depends on how many people receive the news, no matter where the money comes from. So, in a day and age when a conservative president with bad ideas has approval ratings in the high twenties and the American populace has tilted to the left in response, "the media" is pretty much forced to kind of put a left spin on their news so that people will still read it and they will continue to make money. The second one is that there are still plenty of conservative news outlets there and you know it...!

[ecto]

Prox lets look at the facts here and you see why I don’t find Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to be a sincere peace loving person. He was involved in the Iran Hostage Crisis which was conveniently overlooked as he was elected President.

One of the guidelines to be elected president of Iran is to not have a criminal record. Looks like they screwed the pooch on that one! He continues to deny that the holocaust happened, debating and even going as far as calling it a myth. He seems to have a problem with Izrael and has mentioned numerous times he would like to wipe them off the face of the Earth.

On December 12, 2006, Ahmadinejad addressed the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, and made comments about the future of Israel. He said, "Israel is about to crash. This is God's promise and the wish of all the world's nations." He continued, "Everyone must know that just as the U.S.S.R. disappeared, this will also be the fate of the Zionist regime, and humanity will be free."

Trust inspiring words from a man of peace? Conflict mongering, I think not.

[Prox]

First off, Ahmadinejad's involvement in the embassy takeover is what we call a "controversy" not a "fact". Second, he's an antisemite, he hates Israel, everybody knows it, stop talking about it. That bit about Israel is actually part of a larger phrase he said which in summation means "Israel will cease to exist". For clarification, he made the speech once, not numerous times, and it didn't include anything about he himself wanting to destroy Israel. That third paragraph of yours is actually that same speech, so you should be able to see how there is no intention in there.

He is a hateful crazy bastard, but he's not to be taken seriously. As for conflictmongering, that's exactly what we're doing. Some of America's politicians now are trying to initiate another "preemptive strike", and fix us up with another trillion-dollar catastrophe that people can remember us by. If that's not conflictmongering, I don't know what is.

[ecto]

Iran hides our enemies. Where do you think they go when the situation gets to tough for them in Afghanastan? Straight to Iran. No intention Prox, I don't buy it. If he's the peaceful man you claim he is then why did he move to get his Nuclear program going so quickly?

I don't see that as conflict mongering. I see that as trying to keep a mad man with a nuke from launching it towards Israel. We wont know if he actually has one until it's to late. I don't want to say I told you so.

[Prox]

I lol'd. Again, not a fact, but a guess. There probably are terrorists in Iran who hold the United States up as their main enemy instead of the Sunnis, but you already know Iran doesn't really like us all that much, so you should also understand that they're not about to go prosecuting those terrorists. Not the same as hiding them, you see. And if you want to go into Iran to try fatally to pick off every single pipe bomber from the millions of innocents who live there, then you're going to end up with another Iraq war, with a single letter difference.

Also, good job jumping to conclusions. I never claimed Ahmadinejad was peaceful. Read more closely next time. As for Ahmadinejad, you must think he's some kind of dumbass. He knows that the United States is one of the staunchest allies of Israel. He knows that if he even so much as stroked the button on his nuclear program, we would bomb him to hell and back and back to hell. Given that knowledge, why would he even try? Tell me, why would he even try?

[FyberOptic]

I'm honestly not sure there is a country in the middle-east which is majority Muslim that doesn't want to see Israel off the map.

But yeah, while Iran's government is just as corrupt as many of the other countries over there, and they continue to keep tensions in the region as hot as always, I don't see them posing any immediate threat.  Certainly not one that would ever warrant another war.  We've already fucked ourselves up the butt with Iraq, and Iran is approximately 3x the size.  We would not win a conflict with them at all, with our forces already stretched so thin.  An impeachment would be in order if it were even attempted, if you ask me.

[ecto]

You do realize that if the President were impeached we'd have to deal with Cheney? It would be the same thing as before. If you despise Bush as you do know there would be no difference. You'd still be dealing with the same administration under a different name.They may try to sneak in Nancy but it would be just as bad as voting for Hillary.

[Prox]

Nice segue there. Fyber was just making a point, that an invasion of Iran would be a very bad idea.

[Bluejay]

You know Ecto's right, We'd have to deal with the entire staff.... I think we can cook something up to not have to wait for next november to get rid of Bush and his cronies.