Political Pigpin

[FyberOptic]

lol Giuliani.  His campaign slogan should be "OH GOD, TERRORISTS???"


EDIT:  Normally I wouldn't link Michael Moore stuff here no mo since I'm not a big fan in general, but his healthcare attitude is spot-on in my opinion, and he made even more good points about it on CNBC.

[FyberOptic]

Al Gore has "fallen out of love with politics" and has no intention of running for office.  We pretty much already knew that for the most part, but I reckon that confirms it.

[ecto]

This is a fine example of hypocrisy running on both sides. Scooters pardon was a bad move on the Presidents part. He should be in jail, and i'd like to someone wipe that grin off his face. A former president who gave 180 or more pardons before he left the White House shouldn't be opening his mouth. While Bush is getting crap for firing eight attorneys people seem to over look the fact Bill had fired 93. If this isn't hypocrisy I don't know what is.

[FyberOptic]

As far as I know, you're allowed to fire whoever you want and hire your own particular people in your administration once you take over.  So I don't think Clinton did anything particularly wrong there unless I looked into it more, just as Bush wouldn't have been doing anything wrong by firing them, if it hadn't been for the fact that he left them employed until years after he took the presidency, and got rid of them after they were the ones to look into his shady dealings.

Meanwhile, Fox News strikes again with more FUD..!  This time, universal healthcare: breeding ground for terror?  Say it aint so.

p.s. It aint so.

[Bluejay]

*Votes a third party to end all debates*

[Doctor Worm]

Enjoy your wasted vote.

Also, Fox News isn't. Then again, MSNBC and their ilk make me want to throw my remote, too. I usually try to stick to the wires.

[FyberOptic]

This isn't really political, but is a perfect example of a.) why Fox News sucks, b.) why they're all mindless assholes, and c.) why I can't figure out why anyone still watches.  The one guy even agrees with what the group is saying, and instantly turns around and disagrees with it, just long enough to badmouth the future generation of kids.  -o-;;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44WCUKIK2Y

[FyberOptic]

I dunno if anyone has heard about it, but Michael Moore has been flinging up a shit storm over claims that CNN was spreading misinformation about healthcare and his movie.  He went on the air demanding an apology, and being a pretty big asshole in general, instead of just talking about his movie like they brought him on to do in the first place.  He even got sidetracked at on point, rambling on about how they should apologize to him and the viewers for not paying attention to his predictions about the war.  He promised he'd put up all the "facts" when he got off the air, and sure enough, it didn't take long till on his site was a point-per-point rebuttle for all the things he claimed was wrong in their report(s).

Well, I didn't expect it, but CNN publicly responded, and it's pretty funny that they seem to be right on most of the points they make.  I didn't read all of it, but if this doesn't make Moore shut up, nothing will.  As the CNN rebuttle said, most of his complaints are likely just to stir up controversy to promote his film.

And hence, yet another reason I just dislike him as an individual.  Tis kind of a shame, since he tends to make good points about things.  It's just that he just doesn't always know how to do it in a sane manner at times.

[Bluejay]

Moore is the worst kind of public figure.... screw his politics, I mean, he's just an asshole. And he'll do/say anything to get attention, true his topics usually need attention, but not like he brings it.  Honestly he's the type to say something JUST to make a stink, then fallow it up with "Oh yeah, here's a movie."  That, sadly will make people ignore the actual issue in question.

[ecto]

Blue, I couldn't agree with you More. Moores a destructive person and like Rosie I think he's waddeling down the path to crazy town. His films are nothing but propaganda and i'll have nothing to do with them. It's not up to the government to provide us health care. The system he wants us to convert to only spends about two hundred bucks a person.Will the medical companies and doctors change their fees to suit or budgets? Not bloody likely.

[FyberOptic]

I might not care for Moore, but I still support the universal healthcare.  Our system is total garbage, paying huge amounts of money for service and medicines, all because we let for-profit companies control the entire industry.  The government takes care of our police/fire/schools/etc, so if we can do those things, we might as well do healthcare too, just like every other decent country out there is doing already.  We'd pay less in the long run in taxes than we're currently paying to these bastardly companies, who are out to make as much profit as possible for their stockholders by denying as many payments as possible.

[ecto]

If our system is total garbage why are we rated higher then Cuba? We must be doing something right. Id rather have the choice of being able too choose my doctor.If the government ran our health care I would wonder if all doctors would be paid the same rate. That would really suck. Medical school is very expensive and I doubt it would get any cheaper if that did infact happen. Over the course of the following years we would have less people wanting to become doctors as it wouldn't be a profitable profession.

[Bluejay]

I think the problem is more in the public that the doctors.  Canada has doctors, plenty of them, the universal healthcare system means higher taxes, that's why people stray from it here.  But the doctors would make no less really, as universal healthcare only covers needed procedures, and we have enough self concious people in this country that would still want cosmetic procedures that thay'd have to pay for.  But cases like me (can't afford insurance or a doctors visit but really need one) would actually be able to get the care needed because money wouldn't be such a factor in it anymore.

[ecto]

My whole problem with the idea of universal healthcare is not having a choice. If the government gives you an option of wanting to go with Universal Healthcare as well as another company I wouldn't care.

[Boris]

Ecto states a valid fear but in the wrong way, the lack of choice comes from the fact that a middle class citizen, or a small business, could not afforad both the new high taxes for the public healthcare system and the cost of insurance or direct pay toward a more accountable private healthcare.

As usual the issue boils down to it benefiting the folks who lack the means to pay for their own now versus hurting the quality of service for those who can.

My stance still happens to fall on the "It's not my societal responsibility to pay for the private services of others." side of things, but we've been slowly losing that fight for the last... long time. (I'd launch into the whole 'any society that can vote itself money is doomed to fail' quote rant, but I won't post in this thread again for a while more than likely.)

(edit: hey Jay, ask Great Brittain how national healthcare works for retaining their doctor levels in the country. It pays so little they have to do those 'look the other way and speed along the naturalization of foreign doctors' kind of things to keep the level ballanced. It's a profession that requires a ridiculous ammount of training and certification, and when you remove the monitary insentive, you're killing a LOT of the supply. You have two choice at that point, pay them more [higher taxes in a social system, higher prices in a public one] or remove a level of difficulty required to get a lisence [Dr. Nick Riverra's Holleywood Upstairs Medical Schoo.] Or you could always accept them as long as they're certified in Mexico. Point is, it doesn't remain all roses, and there isn't an easy and good solution. Not that I don't sympathise, but I still shouldn't be gun to the head responsible for the wellbeing of others not my family or offspring.)