http://www.badassoftheweek.com/armstrong.html
John Barclay Armstrong's balls are GIGANTIC.

Not sure how 'Lawful Good' it is, but a couple of moments in a character's timeline....

We were in a competition to decide who would be the next king of the land we were currently living in. My character and another were both picked to participate.... against each other. The first competition was a battle royale.

The only catch was, it was henchmen based.

The other character was building a ninja/thieves guild (Yes, a little weeaboo, but fuck it, it was funny, witty and imaginative.) Whereas I had no one. So I set about hiring people we had befriended over the years.

That's when I decided I couldn't let people fight in my place, and with some handy spells and skill checks, disguised myself to fight with them.

I got caught and was disqualified, because I would not let anyone fight my battles for me, alone.

Fred McFeely Rogers. Originally studying to be a priest, he changed his mind when he got a glimpse of his first TV show, and had an inspirational thought- you could use TV not just to entertain, but to educate and help, on a wider scale than with any other medium.

So he dedicated his life to the cause of Public Television, and defending its position in American culture to all comers, up to and including the Nixon Administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q

>What Lawful Good is supposed to be.

Alicia. Thread over.

>>2617345
Mr Rogers is a minor deity in all my campaigns

>>2617337
Another moment, later in the campaign... was facing off with a group of Druids who chose death to even things out, rather than life. After wading through large groups of them, I came upon one particularly powerful one... the local leader or something like that. They had this big bad plan to kill an ancient, massive tree (Think 'tree city' style.)

"We're going to make the world realize that death is the only way to balance out nature, by one major sacrifice!"

It's clearly obvious that he could kick my ass in under a minute, but still, I had no choice. Summoning up a short, heroic speech about how I know death is one way, but I can't let him do it, I rush him.

Mother fucker uses Live Staff or whatever, suddenly, Treants, one big mean one, right in front of me.

What I would decide later was 'the power of conviction' coursed through me, and I managed to pretty much dice it in half in two-three hits (A bit of a powergamer, but it worked out well.)

Again, not so sure of the 'righteousness' and 'lawfulness' of it all, but just that I stood my ground against overwhelming odds, even charged at him, sounds a little like it to me.

>>2617351
Rest In Peace

>>2617351
I approve of this idea.

>>2617351

"correct as usual, king friday"

>>2617346

Funnily enough, Alicia started off as a pretty shit paladin.

In the beginning she was your typical stuck up holier than thou bitch who was in it as much for self aggrandisement as much as her (still entirely sincere) sense of justice.

Then she retired after falling in love so that she could raise a family without having to run off and kill bandits and monsters every week, resulting in her pretty much ignoring the brigands gaining strength near the village she'd settled down in after leaving the church. Until said brigands killed her husband and son.

This caused her to go a bit psycho and she mercilessly slaughtered the lot of them, almost certainly falling if she was even still a paladin at all at that point (it's a bit vague since this is all background rather than stuff that happened ingame - she started at level 7) - she's admitted that some surrendered and she intimidated them into picking up their swords so she could kill them 'honourably'.

Luckily she didn't go completely off the deep end, and after concluding her blood-soaked orgy of revenge she went back to her church for spiritual guidance/a shoulder to cry on. After atoning and retaking her vows as a paladin, she emerged as a sternly dedicated guardian of justice, albeit still one with a very vengeance focused mindset.

It wasn't until she was reunited with her sister the convicted assassin that she really started to believe in concepts such as redemption and rehabilitation, and that was a viciously hard journey for her.

>>2617271
didn't his client end up getting lynched?

>>2617603

8/10.

A bit on the Mary Sue angle with the dead family, but blood lust makes up for it.

>>2617603
>>2617346

Is this from a /tg/ thread I missed? Can't find anything in the archives.

Screw Mon Mothma, Leia Organa, and Gram Bel Iblis. This guy is the beating heart of the Alliance and later New Republic warmachine.

>>2617648

Yeah, she's the one with the paladin story threads. The one about the lesbian erinyes redemption or some shit. Writes good stories.

>>2617648

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/870457
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1042503
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1609501

There's been more, but they're the ones that've been archived.

He's not the most famous or most powerful superhero in the Marvel universe, but I've always like Vance Astrovik, known as Marvel Boy, until he renamed himself Justice.

Young man, old-school values. Doesn't kill, tries to keep other people from killing and all that. The image is one of his finest moments, telling his teammates that he won't let them break him out, because he committed a crime, was sentenced and is going to serve that time. Because he believes in the system.

>>2617679
>>2617661

Thanks, brb reading paladin threads

>>2617603

Is she still going? I haven't seen anything from you in a long time.

>>2617704

The game's been running pretty slow for a few months to RL issues with one player. We're starting to pick things up but so far haven't done anything epic enough to justify a story.

Once we do you can be sure I'll post it!

keldorn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkYuK3AKrxc

A must for all threads like this.

>>2617744

Keldorn's pretty good. He's the best Lawful Good character in a video game I can think of. Heck, he can even make some Lawful Stupid choices if the player's dumb. It's very well balanced and written out.

>>2617721

Are you ever going to post a story about you and that redeemed erinyes? A fapfic? Did I miss it?

>A bit on the Mary Sue angle with the dead family, but blood lust makes up for it.

I ran her through the Mary Sue calculator once and got a horrifyingly high score.

Playing a high charisma gish who happens to be one of the highest level people in the world is just asking for trouble.

>>2617351

You sir, are awesome. I am so taking this and putting it in my games. What are Mr. Roger's domains?

>>2617778
Community, Creation, Dream, Good, Law, Mind.

>>2617769

As hot as that would be, both are straight as the proverbial arrow.

>>2617800

Can you pretend that they aren't?

>>2617778

Mr. Rogers is the God of Peace (his whole life was touting non-anger), Knowledge (likewise but with education), and Creativity (Land of Make-Believe). His symbol is the Trolley, the carrier of information.

Clerics of Mr. Rogers wear hand-knit sweaters of various colors and black dress pants. One of their most closely held rituals is, whenever they enter the inner sanctum of one of the temples, they sit down for a moment and swap their street shoes for sanctified shoes ("sneakers"), which are stored in a closet just within every inner sanctum.

the problem far too often is that people expect LG characters to be able to solve all problems, and that failure to do so is "fall worthy" like "Save those 5 kids over there or those 50 children on the other side of the room, and you only have time to do one, oops you chose to let 5 kids die, you fall"
or sometimes they take the lawful half too far "You chopped down a tree to bash open the ogre's lair, and save the princess, but the tree was part of a forrest that is forbidden to be used for lumber, you fall"

>>2617772
where is there a mary sue calculator?

>>2617772

What level is she?

>>2617812

How could you have a trolley symbol to carry around?

>>2617839

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

>>2617843

13

>>2617832
Clerics should be cut off from Divine power EXACTLY as easily as Paladins. Well, not exactly, since they're already allowed to be an alignment step away from their god or something. But even if they were, you know, judged the same but allowed a few missteps due to that caveat... The ensuing BAAAAWWW and complete lack of any Clerics would make DMs rethink their harsh expectations for Paladins.

Or, the DM would be happy to see that Clerics are no longer a powergaming option in his campaign, and start being a dick to everybody.

>>2617875

Easy enough. Just a piece of wood carved in the shape of the trolley. Or, hell, a child's toy. The toy would be better I think.

>Clerics should be cut off from Divine power

I read this far before going "Fuck yeah, that spell is way too good."

But yeah, solid point otherwise. Clerics and Paladins should both have codes specific to either their deities or causes/alignments (if deity-less) and each be held just as strictly to it as the other.

Dirty Harry. He's what lawful good looks like in a world that's chaotic and or evil.

Lawful good does not equal lawful nice.

>>2617916

Agreed. I run it as that if a cleric does enough to piss off his God, he loses his powers entirely. He has to atone or switch to a God now more suitable for him. Changing Gods is presented as easier generally - sure, worship the God of Murder for free or spend awhile on a hard, rewardless quest to atone.

It's a bit of asshole DMing but I've found it to help cut down on cleric bullshit.

>>2617881

Only 13? Low power campaign world?

I always say "lawful good doesn't mean lawful nice"

Defending race mixers using the law? Lawful Evil.

>>2617699
Thats..pretty manly

>>2617957
Goddamn right.

>>2617875
>>2617906

I had a better thought, though.

Rogers was always pursuing the idea of using music to help deal with anger and stress, and I think we can all agree the Neighborhood's theme music sure did the trick.

So instead, Rogers' symbol is the musical note, and Musicians are part of his portfolio along with community leaders and diplomats.

>>2617931

Somewhat. Basically it started off as a low-powered/low-magic setting, set after a cataclysmic battle where the Gods became removed from the world. Now they're starting to come back along with all sorts of other wackiness.

The PCs are basically riding the crest of the wave as the setting becomes more high powered, but we're generally not challenged by mortals/humanoids - typically the ones close to our power level are remarkable in their own right.

Once upon a time, I played a Lawful Good rogue by the name of Nebbles The Halfling. Nebbles The Halfling's was a troubled lad in that he was really, really good at stealing, but he wasn't so great at stealing on the spot, because he felt the need to justify it to his conscience. This was decided because my rolls to pick pockets almost invariably failed and my Hide and Move Silently rolls were almost invariably successful.

Anyway, we had come across an evil politician in a large city, one that had decided that our attempts to help the city were going to hurt his corruption and whatnot. Various veiled threats were made by him, and Nebbles The Halfling always tried to find evidence that would incriminate the politician and get him put in jail, where he belonged. Long story short, it's finally decided that the politician was too good at covering his tracks to stop him through conventional means... and so, Nebbles The Halfling confronted him in a big, public place: the middle of the congessional-type area.

Nebbles> "Hi, Evil Politician Whose Name Escapes The Writer."
EPWNETW> "... Hello. What do you want, you pustular scab on my perfect city?"
Nebbles> "I've decided that you need to confess to your crimes."
EP> "That's... nice, I suppose. Get out, before I have you removed."
Nebbles> "Are you going to confess?"
EP> Losing his patience, grabbing the halfling. "Get OUT!"

At this point, Nebbles The Halfling suddenly had a dagger sticking out of his chest and a horrified look on his face. He gave a scream and started spraying blood all over the evil politician, gathering everyone's attention in the entire place. In actuality, Nebbles The Halfling had used a fake knife and an assortment of magical items to fake his own death in a highly public manner to get the politician imprisoned and the city guard to investigate his personal life, revealing all of the nasty little things he'd done throughout his career.

tl;dr version: My favorite rogue, ever.

>>2618021
I fucking lol'd. Shades of Fight Club.

Ghandi was pretty Lawful Good.

Hitler was Lawful Good. Duh, the importance of everything and his nation in front of himself!

>>2618021
win

WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE?!

A PALADIN CAN NOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT FALLING. PERIOD!

"OOPS, I FORGOT TO SHAKE 3 TIMES AFTER TAKING A PISS AND STAINED MY TUNIC..."

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneoneo
ne2

I had one campaign where two Paladins (mine and an NPC) ended up fighting each other over a prophecy that foretold that a young child would become a great force of evil in the world. The other one had been convinced that in order to prevent this from coming to pass, he had to kill the child, whereas mine refused to allow the then-innocent to be killed and wanted to bring the child up to be good in defiance of the prophecy. I managed to avoid killing him because two of my party members had improved disarm, so in two rounds he'd been divested of all his weapons and the rogue had already made off with the kid using his ninja hax. It was pretty epic.

Alignment threads win. More.

>>2618021

OH, GOD, I CAME FROM THE MANLY.

I played a paladin that got to take a custom feat: His penis was capable of purifying evil. No shit. I slept and raped my way to the Heavens, leaving behind dozens of reformed baddies and assimar children. Now that's LG.

>>2617271
I just find that the rigid enforcement of good and evil as multiplanar forces inevitably turns everyone into a stereotype because ALIGNMENTS ARE STEREOTYPES. You can't be just a good guy, no, you have to be LG, NG or CG - or maybe you're neutral? And are you good -enough- to be an Exalted character? ARE YOU ENOUGH OF A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN STEREOTYPE TO HAVE GAME-BREAKING FEATS? ARE YOU MAN?

>>2618041
Ghandi hated Jews. I dont think Atticus Finch would have hated Jews.

Just ran Alicia through the Sue test to refresh my memory on her score.

48

It's a very shitty test, though. She got a ton of points for her spellcasting and paladin abilities that I don't feel were appropriate (the instructions say don't tick them if such things are normal, but when Fly is a 3rd level spell and people who can even cast 1st level spells are a small minority, it qualifies as unusual).

>>2618140
NG *is* "just a good guy".

At any rate, people who think their alignment dictates how their character acts are idiots. It's the other way round. Your character acts however they do, and you decide which alignment most accurately describes them based on that.

>>2618140
>game-breaking feats
The BoED doesn't contain any of those.

>>2618145
It's not unusual among her peer group, one assumes.

>>2618156

I'M POOR AND I GET SHIT FOR BEING POOR! I'M NOT BROKEN AT ALL

>>2618164
>It's not unusual

To be loved by anyone?

>>2618103
I was that Rogue. Spellthief to be exact.

>>2618173
Vow of Poverty isn't broken. It's less powerful than just spending your gold wisely, assuming you're following wealth-by-level guidelines (like the entire game assumes you are).

>>2618156
>>I never looked at the dozens of monk builds based off of Vow of Poverty.

>>I never looked at the dozens of monk builds based off of Vow of Poverty.

You mean those monks that can't fly?

>>2618196
>I think monk is a good class
Monks suck. VoP doesn't make them any better, except maybe at levels 1-6.

If you think VoP monks are overpowered, you don't understand D&D very well.

>>2618145

url for aforementioned sue test?

>>2618219

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

>>2618223

Thanks much.

>>2618209

You mean a mnk who can have Fly cast on him?

>>2618235
Because it's not like there's anything more effective to do with that spell slot and standard action, right?

>>2618235

Good job, you've turned the party wizard - that guy who can change reality with his mind - into your personal fluffer.

That standard action he spent boosting you up so you can play with the big boys? He could've used it to end the encounter.

How about Sam Vimes?

>>2618217
Hey Logic Ninja, are you good at balance work in general, or just D&D specifically? I want to get somebody else competent to look at something for me.

>>2618249

Any good DM wouldn't let the wizard do that, though.

>>2618249
Yeah, monks are okay... if everyone else spends all their time buffing them.

>>2618256
I'm pretty decent with other stuff, but I know 3.5 better than I know anything else. Whaddya need?

>>2618143
Because unless you acknowledge that Jews are the Chosen Race of God, you're Lawful Evil, amirite?

>>2618217
>>If you think VoP monks are overpowered, you don't understand D&D very well.

I never liked D&D. I... I just wanted to feel special and smart. I just play CthulhuTech these days...

I'm still working on character concept, but I'm aiming to play a paladin based very highly on Judge Dredd next opportunity I get.

>>2618244
>>2618249

>BAAAAAWWWWW MY WIZARD CAN DO THIS SHIT BY HIMSELF WHY DO I HAVE TO PLAY WITH YOU FAGGOTS I CAN SOLO DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS BY MYSELF!

whateverman

>>2618250
Lawful Good and awesome.

He and Carrot are both Lawful Good, one of them idealistic, one of them cynical, and both of them awesome.

>>2618268
This thing I made for /tg/. You might've seen it around.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Metal_Slug_System
I was wondering what the biggest ways to break it were, and if you had any advice on making it more balanced.

>>2618249
Holy shit, all the players are having fun because someone isn't deliberately dominating the game and making everyone else redundant? I'm pretty sure the DMG forbids this

>>2618250
Best Lawful Good.

>>2618294

D&D is a team game. So be a part of the team instead of the fat kid who gets picked last because they suck and drag everyone down.

Geez, this thread's gotten kinda angry.

I'm done, by the way.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mr._Rogers_(DnD_Deity)

>>2618286

That's impossible.

You can't be Sylvester Stallone without horribly fucking up your voice and suffering from a stroke that paralyzes the parts of your face that surround your eyes.

Here's my story.

I was a Paladin grouping with your typical SENSELESS KILLINAN group because I was assigned to keep them in check since they had broken from jails many times. After a while of adventuring I managed to tone them down. Anyway while looking for this artifact the wizard wanted we came across this city with an oppressive ruler.

After finding out what was going on the Baron was taking rations from the people enacting harsh curfews and drafted most of the population. After a short degree of convincing my party we went to overthrow the Baron. I personally lead the assault. After a good battle later we had the Baron defeated and our barbarian killed the Baron in the fight.

Later we found out that there was a huge orc army heading for the city and the Baron was trying to bolster the defenses to fight them off. Being completely responsible for the leadership vacuum and a man to right his mistakes I took charge of the city and Ordered a mass evacuation to an allied town/ fortress. My party abandoned me by this time because they "didn't care about them." The Evacuation was taking too long and the orc army was almost there. So in an act of defiance I stood outside the gates ready to hold off the ENTIRE orc army. Some of the people were inspired by my actions and came out the gates to help me.

The Battle ensued, most of the people fighting with me died. I stood there holding my sword in the ground staring towards the orc encampment, very badly wounded. We used a system where you remain conscious even if you go below 0 HP but if you hit -10 you die, and every turn you aren't healed you lose exponential hp ( like 1,2,4,8 etc..) I was near dead from wounds during the battle, but I finally passed that threshold after the battle. I Literally died standing. The Orcs did not attack again thinking I was still alive.

Holy Bojangles, I have a rogue that scored a 42...

At least the reason I use my name is to cut down on confusion...

>>2618294
So, what you're saying is that... you should get to decide what the party wizard does and what he prepares, and if he's not OK with that, he "just wants to solo D&D"?

>>2618354

What he's saying is that anyone who isn't a powergaming 'tard doesn't do that shit. A wizard who tried to break and dominate the game in anything I ran would suffer a mysterious bad end.

Of course, you're LogicNinja and too busy stuffing cocks up your gaping asshole, so whatever.

>>2618351

Well, now I feel less self-conscious.

All in all, I don't think that test is well suited to D&D characters. Even being filthy rich (as any adventurer past level 2 is) and having your spare dagger for grapples and shit is worth a couple of Sue points.

>>2618354

No, I'm saying D&D is a team game. You should think of the team when playing. Sure you could prepare all save or die spells, but then again why would you need a team if you did that? Whatever, play how you want to play, just don't be surprised when everyone thinks youre a douche.

>>2618354
No, I think he's saying it is entirely possible that whoever is playing the wizard is a team player and does not think it is a waste of a spell slot to buff one of his allies because he is not a powergaming faggot and perhaps recognises that it is still possible to have fun without having to try and make ultra-optimised builds that make the rest of the party redundant. I know it might be hard to understand, but extrapolating your own behaviour to everyone else is not actually an accurate way of figuring out how other people will act.

tl;dr: LogicNinja is a humongous faggot.

Takamachi Nanoha from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha is a great example of Lawful Good.

She works for an inter-dimensional police force, always attack to subdue opponents instead of killing them, and will save anyone that requires saving, even those that others consider non-human. She also have a tendency to take in orphaned children and give them loving homes.

A rare case of a lawful good magical girl who won't bother holding back while fighting. Even if she won't kill you, she'll use whatever force is necessary for taking you down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6eCppUTiKg

My Paladin fell because I refused to kill a child in gladiatorial combat. I knew he would be killed if I didn't kill him, but I couldn't do it. He was tortured for a week while I was magically frozen to the spot. He cursed my god and me until his dying breath, so great was his agony.

My DM said I fell because I could have put him out of his misery quickly if I'd simply killed him.

>>2618368

Well, the test DOES say to skip questions that are 'normal' for the setting. i.e. magic weapons in D&D, etc.

Admittedly, I just wanted a backstory that justified having been well-born and being raised by whores.

-family worshipped Grazzy-kun, the six-fingered lord, rogue ran away before he could be railroaded into an Evil rite of passage

-ran into the temple sector of town and found one that was nice and low-traffic

-turns out it's Lastai's temple, so he gets taken in by a kindhearted Madam and does odd jobs (remember that episode of the Simpsons with Bart and the Bordello?)

-gets noticed by a thieves' guild member and sponsored for training

-fairly normal thiefy life until contracted by the army for spyin' on the army of classic redshirts (led by drow, with an Alhoon considering investing in their 'venture')

-met up with party, you know the rest. Recently, I ALMOST tumbled past a charging, CR26 Howling Dragon without any attacks of opportunity. He got me with his tail.

>>2618416

At least I know my DM looks down on forcing a fall.

>>2618425
Force? I wasn't forced. I fully admit it was my fault, having DMed many games myself.

Ugh. Players like you make me sick. You have no conception of how the game works.

>>2618414

Plus she's completely gay. That's an important part for a female paladin/LG character. They must love the pussy.

>>2618419

P.S. the 'raised by whores' was based on a rather amusing misreading of something that included being raised by wolves,' and I thought it'd be a funny thing to include.

>>2618425
No Paladin in any game I have played has ever fallen because our DMs recognise that forcing players to fall is not actually fun for anyone involved. I always have to wonder where the fuck you guys find your DMs.

>>2618416
Paladin would not have fallen in that situation if he had taken all steps to get the child out of that situation, killing him and granting " mercy" is not a paladin move.

>>2618447
You play with faggot hippies. that's why you don't fall.

>>2618433

Did you know ahead of time the kid was going to have a fate worse than death?

>Force? I wasn't forced. I fully admit it was my fault, having DMed many games myself.
>Ugh. Players like you make me sick. You have no conception of how the game works.

Fuck you and fuck your theory.

Executing someone because the evil overlord told you to is evil. Not being able to stop the evil overlord execute someone is not evil.

Guess which makes the paladin fall?

>>2618433
What you described is not a situation where a Paladin should be falling. It was retarded. So are you and your DM. Sorry.

>>2618451
>>2618460
I knew he would be killed by a very evil person. It's my fault for being stupid enough not to realize that I could make it quick and painless. I deserved to fall.

If a paladin is played like a paladin, he wont fall. Paladins are not ment to be played by idiots

>>2618474

Agreed. There aren't bad paladins, only bad players and bad DMs. Most paladins should be like that Alicia above, or Sameo or the others that are famous.

>>2618474
Paladins have no int or wisdom requirements.

You're wrong by the very definition of what a paladin is.

>>2618468
You deserved to fall, but not because you could have given him "mercy" you could have saved him, or died trying, you chose to do nothing. You wouldn't have fallen if you did nothing because you probably had little power in the situation. but you. You deserve to fall because you think you deserved to fall for not doing evil.

>>2618488

Hi LogicNinja.

Anyway, nothing has an ability requirement in 3.5's base classes, numbnuts.

The only person that can make a paladin fall is a paladin.

It doesn't matter jack shit what the BBEG does - his sins are his own to answer for and the paladin bears no responsibility for anything he does, no matter what the BBEG says.

It's only if the paladin himself commits an evil act that he risks falling, a fact sadly missed by so many of these retarded dilemmas that magically lead to the paladins losing their powers.

>>2617965
The best part is probably how he kept the lawful good behavior in prison, both talking down a prison riot caused by terrible living conditions and improving the living conditions through negotiation and compromise, solving the situation in everyone's best interest.

>>2618480
No love for my story? >>2618346 ?
>>2618488
you sir are wrong, not on the mechanics, but that a paladin should be dumb.

>>2618493
I did my best. I used subdual damage on the brainwashed kid instead of lethal. i took damage from the drugged kid instead of killing him.

But there was no escape. We were in a pocket dimension and I had no pertinent spells.

>>2618354
No he's saying that not everyone should have to play a wizard or a cleric and be a powergamer to have a fun game.

>>2618500

This. so very much this.

>>2618506
Then you shouldn't have fallen

>>2618497
hi paranoid anon

>>2618522
Hurr durr, yes I should have.

I was responsible for the torture of a little kid. I'm sorry, that's evil no matter how you slice it. You must be fucking terrible railroading DM if you just ignore all the rules like that.

>>2618537
Did you personally whip and beat the boy? did you chain him up and torture him? No you were chained up and helpless as well. You couldn't do anything except a daring escape would would have gotten all of you killed.

You shouldn't have fallen.

Christ its paladins like you that my paladin hunts

>>2618140
Don't confuse christian religion for the polytheist beliefs of your typical DnD setting. Paladin does not equal fundy.

>>2618416

Sorry pal, I think your DM is just a douche.

A Paladin uphold his sense of honour and if that includes no killing, then he wouldn't kill anyone no matter what the circumstances is.

By the same definition, you should kill all bad guys than allowing them to be imprisoned for all their cruelties.

>>2618556
Some guy is falling off a bridge. A rope is tie to his neck. If he falls off the bridge he will land on spikes which are coated in acid and he will bleed on them in extreme agony before dying in several hours. If I grab the rope, I can break his neck and instantly kill him.

I am morally obligated to do so. If not, you're a bad person. Just because there's nothing I'm doing, doesn't mean I'm NOT responsible for his pain.

Jesus, you're obtuse.

>Don't confuse christian religion for the polytheist beliefs

D&D good is basically Uneducated Pop/JRPG Christianity.

Some fuckers seem to think that failing to stop a great evil, despite wanting to, should cause a Paladin to fall. That's not how it works. Incompetence is not evil.

Only deliberate evil actions, or deliberate lack of action that is directly evil, can cause a Paladin to fall.

If somebody tries to force a Paladin to kill one guy or else a million others die, the paladin will fall IF he kills the one guy. That is not helping the "greater good". It is just a concession to evil and he will fall if he goes along with it. On the other hand, if he attempts to save everybody involved, no matter how obvious it is that it won't work, he has chosen the path of no evil and will not fall.

>Some guy is falling off a bridge. A rope is tie to his neck. If he falls off the bridge he will land on spikes which are coated in acid and he will bleed on them in extreme agony before dying in several hours. If I grab the rope, I can break his neck and instantly kill him.

Lol what.

>>2618537
Shitty troll.

>>2618586
What's the point of Paladinhood if your hands are tied so you can't work for good? Sounds more like an excuse to avoid doing things you may find distasteful, even when they're the right thing to do.

>>2618586

This man got it right.

Choosing the lesser of two evil is still evil. Though, I am more of a thief player myself, so given the choice, I would have chosen the lesser evil.

>>2618586
If the Paladin does nothing, he falls, for failing to save the lives of millions of people.

>>2618577
If hes mid fall you can't do much. if you cut the rope YOU killed him. your best bet is to talk him out of it. Also there is a slight chance that you can pull him up slowly without breaking his neck and suffocating him, and since you are a paladin you can heal his wounds and get him to an apothecary to cure the poisons.

You don't fall by watching a person commit suicide, you fall by helping them do it!

>What's the point of Paladinhood if your hands are tied so you can't work for good? Sounds more like an excuse to avoid doing things you may find distasteful, even when they're the right thing to do.

The point of paladinhood is to never fucking compromise.

You want to be pragmatic and get shit done 'for the greater good'? Be a fucking fighter or rogue or wizard.

But if you want to embody the purest ideals of justice, then you stick to what's right and don't move a fucking inch, not even in the face of armageddon.

HARD MODE:

Lawful Good characters that aren't Paladins. Jesus Christ, people, every time alignment comes up, someone has to talk about falling paladins.

That should be a chaos mage effect, to satisfy both gays and evil people: "It's raining Men/Paladins."

>>2618414
And she's a Wizard/Sorceror 20.

Man, what started out as a good thread with some quality discussion and video turned into YET ANOTHER falling paladin thread.

Good day, /tg/, I'll see you around.

>>2618641
Exactly. A paladin should be just as lawful as he is good. Doing evil or otherwise breaking the 'rules of good behaviour' for the sake of the greater good is not lawful.

>>2618021

I lol'd.

Good show, anon.

>>2618505
I can't believe I missed that. Magnificent. Everyone loves a good You Shall Not Pass moment.

Anyone else got any good stories?

>>2618627

Eh. If the campaign I'm in ever ends (currently Lvl. 18-ish, continuing into HIGH EPIC), I'm going to go play my first-ever tank. Holy Smite works on all attacks in a given round, right?

>>2617924
Dirty Harry is really a middle charcter. I can see lawful neutral or chaotic good though.

>>2618641
And everybody dies, because making sure people know you're the good guy is more important than actually being the good guy.

man convincing people that lawful=/= obeying the rules is hard to do when people think tacking chaotic to their alignment means super alignment.
theirs a chaotic alignment thread going on as well..

>>2618699
But it does mean obeying the rules, among other things. These rules may be rules you have invented for yourself, perhaps not even conscious ones, but a lawful character still lives, acts, and even thinks according to a set of rules (or perhaps algorithms might be a better choice of word).

>>2618676
He's chaotic good. Even when ordered not to by his superiors, he still goes after criminals because of his own personal morals.

>>2618726
lawful means you follow you integrity, hence a paladins code of conduct. The laws the follow are their laws.

>>2618651
Don't give up on it just yet.

Superman is lawful good, but he my favorite is the story "What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?"

>>2618736
Lawful by definition then. whether hes good is up to debate.

>>2618743
"Integrity is the basing of one's actions on an internally consistent framework of principles."
So... a set of rules of behaviour. Like I said.
In the case of a paladin, one of these rules would presumably be "I do what my code says to, because my code/church/deity knows best". If their personal integrity was the same as their code, they wouldn't need one in the first place.

>>2618750
Note to self, when rewriting your comment, make sure you've deleted the entire old comment before you submit it.

Here, have a torrent if you're interested in the story. It's issue 775.
http://www.mininova.org/tor/66803

>>2618786
A paladins codes ARE his principals and moral intuition. He follows that, and a personal guideline.

If the church made his code and vow and it said kill the heretic, then hes not doing good, but hes obeying his code, hes lawful, but not lawful good. This is why a paladins code is self given.

>>2618648

Seconding this.

Lawful Good =/= Paladins.

>>2618813
True enough, I usually see religious paladins so that's what I was thinking of. It's not really relevant, though. The fact remains that the paladin or other lawful character has a set of rules which include definitions of how to behave and by and large follows them to the letter. As opposed to, say, a neutral character, who takes an ends justify the means/big picture approach, or a chaotic character who acts according to its whims.

>>2618882
Gregory House
Optimus Prime
Batman
Jesus

there ya go

>>2618913

You played as Jesus in a campaign?

>>2618939
Risen Martyr prestige class, Vow of Pacifism, etc. I've seen it done.

>>2618913
All fictional characters I might add.

>>2618992
I was going to say that but I don't know how many christfags I could offend, being that number was probably low, I didn't say it.

>>2618992
Actually, there is one piece of evidence that Jesus existed, and it's that the writers of the Gospels felt the need to jump through hoops to fit old prophecies rather than just make him up from scratch.

>>2619028
Also. Josephus Flavius

>>2619006
Its 4chan. christfags know to shut the fuck up about their imaginary friends.

>>2618992
>>2619006
>>2619028

advicedog,jpg

CREATE RELIGION THREADS

/tg/ WILL LOVE IT

Hey LogicNinja: if you get back to me on that (and thanks if you do), would you put your thoughts on the discussion page on that wiki? I'm gonna be completely smashed from about now to at the very least when this thread autosages.

>>2618882
How about a lawful good fighter?

>>2619123

Excellent example, you should feel excellent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u7Rb2fU4cA

>>2617346
I don't come to /tg/ often. Someone here tell me the story of Alicia the Insanely Epic Paladin.

>>2619249

See here:>>2617679

Aang from Avatar the Last Airbender, after the finale I'd say LG. Despite being pretty carefree and all about freedom etc, he has his own set of strict personal guidelines (his teachings as an Air Nomad) that he absolutely will not compromise on, no matter what. In the series finale, he has to beat the Firelord, and everyone (including his own past lives, including his past life that shared the same teachings) tell him that he needs to act, needs to be pragmatic and must put the greater good above his own personal spiritual wellbeing. but he flat out refuses to kill this guy. Aang kicks reason to the kirb and does the impossible.

He takes the third option.

THAT is what truly makes a character truly Lawful Good (and truly a paladin especially) in my eyes, they never just bow down and accept evil in the world, they never, EVER let evil have the slightest victory, not even over themselves.

Superman never kills, because Superman can't be allowed to kill, he has too much power. A Lawful Good character wont let millions die, just to appease the unstoppable enemy, even if opposing that enemy will lead to the end of reality, he'll fight the foe, save peoples lives, and when the Apocalypse comes, he'll fight that too.

Killing a kid or letting him be tortured to death? The idea of letting the kid die or killing him wouldn't even BE an option to a lawful Good Paladin, they'd fight tooth and nail to save that kids life, even if it meant their own.

>>2619543
So basically Lawful Good are th epeople who can do the impossible and plot armor their way through reality.

>>2619543
>Killing a kid or letting him be tortured to death? The idea of letting the kid die or killing him wouldn't even BE an option to a lawful Good Paladin, they'd fight tooth and nail to save that kids life, even if it meant their own.

There is a fine line between Lawful Good and Lawful Stupid.

I've always felt that this man has always been one of the paragons of Lawful Good, and have always wanted to make a shield tossing Paladin to honor him.

>>2619578

There's also a fine line between being a Paladin who obeys your Code of Honor, and being a wishy-washy mook who just discards it whenever the need arises. Sticking to your principals should be HARD sometimes, it's what having conviction and faith are all about.

Every "Paladin Falling" post in this thread makes me glad that the only Paladins I play are Paladins of Tyranny.

>>2619593
Max ranks in Preform: Oratory and Diplomacy. Cap tends to give a lot of speeches.

I have a pal.

When he push comes to shove, he'll take a punch not only for his friends, but for anyone (while cussing a lot) because he can't stand bullies and injustice.

He's poor because he freely gives money to anyone who needs it (even strangers), never caring if they pay it back. He says "No one should have to be hungry or sad - I can deal with it, but not everyone can."
Of course, he gets fucked over big time by some people (not by me, I'm not that much of a dick - but it would be oh so easy)

However, he hates the Law, because he thinks "It's not fair" to everyone, so might as well fuck it. Justice for all, or it isn't justice at all.
He's also a cynical asshole who will cuss at you while lending you money: "You stupid prick, can't you keep your money together goddamnit? Here, take mine."
He's also not very trusting of people, still helps them, though.

He gets angry when you lie at him, though he expects it. he also expects you to keep your promises (ie. "Can't keep it? Don't gimme that 'promised' shit, then."). And if you're the one at fault in any given situation, he won't help you and say "It's your fault, now take it like a man. Maybe you'll learn."

As you can imagine, his life is pretty shit. Is he LG? Most people say he's LE.

>>2619632
Proof that evil is a crutch for the weak.

>>2619560
or smart enough to know how to right wrongs

>>2619632
That's cause you're a pussy. Would Captain America or Superman backdown just cause the world called them evil?

GM: You fall from paladinhood..
Jim: No.. I don't..

Then I bust some heads and tell my party to wave the American flag behind me while I give some speech.

Course I'm a "Holy Liberator".

It was so funny cause we had a new GM once. And I was a Holy Liberator, and he thought he'd be slick by bringing up abortion and me always considering myself chaotic good and prolife.

Girl: Well if you're so worried about me aborting, what about a spell for sterilization?

Jim: I don't negotiate with terrorists..

Girl: So you expect me to stop from choosing what I want, but won't compromise?! TYRANT!

Jim: You know what? Fine.. you want a steralization? *Pulls out sword*

Girl: What are you doing?

Jim: Don't worry, you'll probably live through this.

Girl: Probably? *Stabs her in the stomache*

James: Will that really stop her from getting pregnant?

Jim: What do I look like? A doctor?

>James: Will that really stop her from getting pregnant?

>Jim: What do I look like? A doctor?

>James
>Jim: What do I look like? A doctor?

Jim: Dammit James! I'm a Paladin not a Doctor!

>>2619658
so tsundere ~_~

I'd say he's NG.

Not conventional good, that's for sure. Doesn't give two shits about "the system," but he doesn't make it a point to fight it, either.

>>2619543
I feel I should point out that Superman did once execute three criminals who were going to invade and destroy earth.

And that's not even counting Doomsday, but those were extenuating circumstances.

>>2619658
Hmm.

Lawful doesn't mean necessary following the law, but more having a code of ethics, morals, and lines that he does not cross.

Easy answer: NG, just because it's difficult to determine judicial alignment.

Difficult answer: LG. He seems to have a solid, unyielding concept of doing good and paying it forward and doesn't seem to be the kind to easily forsake that. Even if he says "Fuck the Law", he only says so due to the lack of good it does. He seems angry, but then again, a heart of gold is a heart of gold.

>>2619721
So, you stabbed her in the stomach on a hunch because you wouldn't attempt to compromise?

You are evil, but you're that warped kind of evil that thinks they're a force for good. If you were really on the side of good, you wouldn't have hurt her.That wound could one day prove fatal, if not immediately, and you gave it to her simply because you disagreed with her wanting an abortion.

You're not good, no matter how much you tell yourself you are.

>>2619762

>I feel I should point out that Superman did once execute three criminals who were going to invade and destroy earth.

That was the one thing in Superman 2 that didn't sit right with me. Superman doesn't kill, especially not the Silver Age Supes he was based on. You should give "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow" a read to see what I'm on about. Doomsday, yeah, I'll concede that, though that was a BID DEAL that he decided to kill him.

>>2619755
>>2619763

Thanks, that makes it a lot clearer. Btw, he dreams about "making a difference", and changing the system we live in but basically, he can't. "I want to live in a world where I and everyone else don't have to be afraid anymore" says he.
Yeah, he's an idiot, but a loveable idiot.

The funny thing is: Everytime someone tells him he's a good guy, he says "Not at all. I'm a bad human being." because he beats bad people up. Since he's a bad guy, he doesn't have any other way to express his disgust with bullies and evil people. That's his logic.

>>2618250

sam vimes is legal fuck you

>>2619852
Idiot? He's got more reason in him than most people.

This soldier gets a thumbs up.

>>2617881
My Catapult BattleMech scored a 22, WTF? The damn thing is 200ish years old and held together with fucking duct tape.

>>2619787
No, not in the movies, though it was the same criminals. Ask /co/ about Pocket Universe Zod and about how Superman broke his no-killing rule.

In his defense, his no killing rule is partially based on the fact that as a kryptonian superman, he's not qualified to decide the course of human lives. But the pocket universe Kryptonians were (kinda) his people, so he was totally allowed to pass judgement on them.

If that makes sense.

I play strictly CG/CN and I will walk the fuck out on a DM who railroads an LG into a fall that the LG didn't want. I hate that shit so damned much.

>>2619883

Yeah, my character-who-ascended-to-godhood got 63. Not that I'm surprised.

I ran the Vampire grappling, Nightmare body-slamming, Black Guard wrestling cleric Ingsoc through that Mary Sue test.

The result was 7.

He still continues to be the greatest character I've ever made.

WAAAAAAUGH

>>2620787
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THE GOD EMPEROR IS A FAGGOT
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THE GOD EMPEROR IS A FAGGOT
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DICKS FOR THE DICK GOD
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THE GOD EMPEROR IS A FAGGOT
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DICKS FOR THE DICK GOD
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